MSNBC
July 11, 2003

COUNTDOWN for July 11, 2003

OLBERMANN: Professor Rufus Kinney of Jacksonville State University lives
exactly 17 miles downwind from where the burning is supposed to take
place. He's a member of Families Concerned about Nerve Gas Incineration.
He joins us now on COUNTDOWN.

Professor Kinney, Good evening to you.

RUFUS KINNEY, PROFESSOR JACKSONVILLE ST. UNIV.: Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it.

OLBERMANN: You heard the man from the Army Chemical Materials Agency in
Kerry Sanders' report, "In all cases, we maximize the safety of the
process to ensure protection of the public and the environment." Is he
right or is he wrong?

KINNEY: Nothing could be further from the truth and when he said that, it
made me laugh cynically, because they could be burning any day now and we
are far from having the maximum protection in place that we have a right
to by federal law. For instance, the schools have not all been over
pressurized, that won't be done before October at the earliest, the
special needs population, 3,900 handicapped people have not been taken
care of, and the first responder equipment in training will not be in
place until 2004. That's your HAZMAT equipment and your fire department
special training. So, there's no way they're going to maximize protection
by burning next week.

OLBERMANN: Practically, what has the Army done for the residents there? I
mean, what have they given you in the way of instructions or materials?

KINNEY: Well, they wouldn't have given us anything except that groups like
mine demanded maximum protection because we have a right to and by law. So
because of that, it's brought about $40 million worth of protection, but
it's not in place yet. But, I can tell you that the people closest in are
receiving gas masks and this is the only American community where a
civilian population has ever received gas masks in American history. So,
that's not very reassuring, but we demanded the gas masks. We also have
boxes with duct tape and plastic, I have one with me if you'd like to see
it.

OLBERMANN: Sure.

KINNEY: And -- would you like to see it?

OLBERMANN: Yes, please.

KINNEY: OK, here's my box.

OLBERMANN: Good grief.

KINNEY: And, $130 million went to pay for this in Alabama. Inside the box
is plastic -- good quality plastic, gray duct tape -- good quality duct
tape...

OLBERMANN: There we go with the duct tape, again.

KINNEY: And, cheap scissors.

OLBERMANN: OK.

KINNEY: Cheap scissors, but they got to save money where they can and
there's a nice little video that tells what you to do. It's one of those,
"Honey, the alarms are going off. KINNEY: OK, honey, let's go in and take
care of things and let's bring Fido in with us," and that kind of
situation.

OLBERMANN: And presumably, you can sit there and watch that videotape
while the -- while the walls melt.

KINNEY: Yeah, that's right.

OLBERMANN: What is your suggestion, practically, about this? Is it to
delay the incineration process? Is to it move somewhere else? What do you
want to see happen?

KINNEY: Right. Well, that's a very good question and we're not asking that
it be moved somewhere else, because we believe that everybody should take
care of their own mess in their own backyard. But, what we do believe
should happen, would be to retrofit this incinerator for an advanced
alternative called neutralization. The other -- there are other
communities that have chemical weapons stockpiles in this same program
that said we're not going to have an incinerator and that includes all
three of the other sites east of the Mississippi River. Kentucky, Indiana,
and Maryland, and they're all going to neutralize their stockpile, plus
Colorado. Yeah.

OLBERMANN: So, we'll see if we can get that done and in the interim,
you've the duct tape to play with.

KINNEY: Right.

OLBERMANN: Rufus Kinney, professor of English at Jacksonville State
University. Many thanks for your time, sir, good night.